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Ms Alison Gaffney & Ms Jennie Seddon Manningham ' Innovation and Excellence ' Cluster & Doncaster Secondary College Doncaster, Victoria, Australia
Over the past few years, there has been an increasing reliance in Victoria, Australia, on the use of student opinion surveys as a way of measuring school performance. More than six years ago, a student opinion survey model, titled ' Feelings about Yourself and School ' , was made available to schools that were undertaking triennial reviews.
Four years ago, Doncaster Secondary College began using this survey on small samples of students from years 7 to 10. It was then used each year until 2003, when the Victorian Department of Education and Training requested that secondary schools conduct a revised form of the survey with all year 7 to 9 students. This was part of its stronger focus on students in the ' middle years ' (years 5-9).
In September 2003, approximately 700 students in years 7, 8 and 9 at the college responded to the revised survey. The survey data was compiled by an external agency and the data made available to schools in November of the same year.
The survey was divided into two main areas: ' Teachers and Teaching ' and ' Feelings about Yourself and School ' . Much of the data was encouraging and was consistent with our previous data from the ' Feelings about yourself and school ' component of the earlier survey.
However, the responses of our year 8 girls in the ' Teachers and Teaching ' category caused some concern. The data indicated that their responses were around the 30th percentile, compared with the statewide response, in this category.
The subgroups of questions in the ' Teachers and Teaching ' category were:
Each of these variables was measured by responses to three or four questions. In each of the subgroups except ' high expectations ' , the year 8 girls ' responses to individual questions were below the 30th percentile and, in one case, below the 15th percentile for the state of Victoria. That is, the mean scores of 85% of year 8 girls in the State were higher than for our girls.
There is a temptation, when faced with such negative feedback, to explain it away, with comments such as, ' Oh, but that group of girls is aberrant! ' (read this as: ' So you can ' t trust their responses ' ). The other defensive strategy is to question the way in which the survey was administered, concluding that the data must be unreliable. In the days when we only sampled two classes out of ten at each year level, it was frequently claimed that the sample size was not large enough or that it was unrepresentative of the year level as a whole. This happened more often when the survey results were negative.
Early in 2004 we met with personnel from the Department of Education and Training, with a view to assisting school staff to interpret opinion survey data. It was suggested that, instead of speculating about what the data was telling us, we should go back to the students themselves, and ask them to explain. As a result, we decided to conduct some focus group interviews and ask the girls about their survey responses. Twenty girls were selected by the year 9 coordinator to make up two focus groups of ten girls each. The girls were selected on the basis that:
The focus groups were conducted by Jennie Seddon (Assistant Principal) and Alison Gaffney (Doncaster Cluster Educator), and the interviews were conducted very formally, according to the following rules:
The interviews were taped and then full written transcripts were made of the tapes.
Both groups were asked the same initial questions. These were based on the ' Teachers and Teaching ' items in the survey to which the girls had responded most negatively. During the discussion, both groups were asked similar, but not always identical, supplementary questions that arose from the girls ' responses. The questions were designed to help us understand:
So, what did the students tell us?
(Note: In this report, and in the transcript of the tape, all student responses are identified as X: …).
The first question centred on the students ' perception of a ' helpful ' teacher. They identified the qualities and behaviour of a helpful teacher. According to the girls, a helpful teacher does the following:
a. Puts plenty of examples on the board
X: ' When they show lots of examples. Like, in [subject], or whatever, if I didn ' t understand, I ' d get the teacher to show lots of examples on the board… ' .
b. Spends time with individual students and is prepared to spend extra time out of class time
X: ' Yeah, my [subject] teacher last year, she was really good. Because I ' m not that good at [subject] and I need help, I ' d go in there at lunch times... And if I had a chance, I ' d always go to her and she ' d help me out, all lunchtime and before school, like at 8 o ' clock. She ' s always been there for me, like helps me and she helped me a lot ' .
c. Takes the time to explain things and check on students ' understanding
X: ' …Like, the teachers are too brief, it ' s hard to understand. We need more explanations and stuff ' .
X: ' …and they notice if you don ' t get something and you look puzzled…they don ' t just leave you to ask a question, but actually approach the person and say, “Oh… ' .
The girls also identified ' unhelpful ' behaviours and attitudes in teachers. The way some teachers respond to student questions or requests for help was considered to be a negative factor in some cases, with some students perceiving that they risked embarrassment and possible ' put downs ' when they asked a question. Examples given were as follows:
X: ' No, it ' s just that sometimes, like, the teacher explains it and you still don ' t get it and it ' s really just embarrassing to say, like, “I still don ' t get itâ€. '
X: ' If you [say to] a teacher: “I don ' t get thisâ€, they might take it negatively. You might have repeated it a hundred times but I still don ' t get it, I need you to repeat it individually. They might take it as a negative. They might say, “You weren ' t listeningâ€, but you don ' t understand it. “You don ' t pay attention in classâ€. You do - but you just don ' t understand it ' .
X : ' With one of my teachers last year, whenever I asked for help, she ' d say, “No, not now. I ' m sorry, not nowâ€. Whenever I asked for help, she ' d be like, “No, not nowâ€.
X: ' We understand that everyone has to have a turn or whatever, but it ' s just that when you do ask a question, I don ' t want to be put down. “You should have been listening. I ' ve explained it so many timesâ€. I know they have explained before but you can explain it so many times and it won ' t click in my head. What you have to do…give examples. You have to do it individually. You understand that everyone else has their problems. But for yourself, you don ' t want to get put down when you are asking ' .
d. Connectedness with teachers
The girls also equated a helpful teacher with a ' caring ' teacher, one who really ' connected ' with students. A ' caring ' teacher was described in similar ways on many occasions during the interviews:
X: ' A caring teacher is a teacher who actually wants to teach. I have a couple of teachers that are really good. And they want [you] to learn and they actually care about the students. They are doing the job because they like it and they want to do it. They are not there because they have to be there…they want to teach. You can ask them a question and you know that you are going to get a proper answer. And you know that you are going to get what you expected and you know that they really, really care ' .
X: ' If you walk past them it ' s, like, ' Hello ' or something. It ' s nice to know they actually care. I can walk past other people and they just ignore me. But it ' s the teachers who walk past and say, ' Hello. How are you? ' you know…? That they actually care ' .
X: ' It ' s quite a hard subject but the teacher actually connects with us and to make a good teacher you have to connect with the students and you have to understand it from their point of view ' .
The students also described the qualities and behaviours of teachers with whom they had good relationships. ' Respect ' and ' friendly ' were words that frequently came up in their comments:
X: ' Like, you just get along with the teacher a bit more and you want to make the teacher happy so you, like, work well, and you respect the teacher more. And they respect you ' .
X: ' You need mutual respect. You need a friendship. Like a friend. You talk about other things as well. You can talk to them, but you can ' t talk to some of them, like, you come from a different planet from them. You just do what you want to do and they just do what they want to do. There ' s nothing, like, that combines you together ' .
X: ' Like, I get along better with teachers who are more, like, friendly, and, um, you can talk to and stuff ' .
The students also drew direct links between their relationship with particular teachers, their motivation and their ability to achieve in those subjects:
X: 'Yeah, . . . like I didn ' t realise, like with my (name of subject)'. My [subject] was like ' A plus ' last year because I was really involved, I really enjoyed it, but this year I am getting Bs and Cs. I just don ' t understand the work. It ' s usually just out of a sheet and I really wish I had my old teacher. She explained it better and she got involved in what we were doing. You can tell by the grades as well, they go down ' .
X: ' You start not doing really anything and you start getting low marks when the teachers don ' t really help you properly ' .
X: ' There ' s maybe last year in [subject]. The teacher wasn ' t really helpful and when I asked a question she just wouldn ' t answer it. And the whole class didn ' t like that subject and I went downhill a lot. It kind of put me off. This year I ' ve got a good teacher and I ' m getting back into [subject] ' .
e. High expectations
Teachers ' expectations of students also came through as being significant:
X: ' I had a teacher last year and she actually made me feel that I wanted to do really good in that subject but then, this year, I ' ve got a teacher that doesn ' t really care and he doesn ' t really think that we ' re capable of doing that work and I just feel like I can ' t do that subject any more, because it ' s not challenging any more ' .
X: ' Sometimes, I find that, some teachers, they don ' t think that you ' re capable of doing harder work and they don ' t push. They give you, like, all the easier work and you just bludge it ' cause you know you can do it ' .
X: ' And you get bored because they give you stuff and they ' re, like, “Here you go†and it ' s stuff you can do ' .
Building students ' confidence was also identified as an important factor:
X: ' Yeah, like, my (name of subject) teacher last year, she was really good. She ' d say “Come on, you can do itâ€, and I ' d build up my confidence. And if I had a chance I ' d always go to her. '
f. Teacher energy
The responses to the statement, ' My teachers put a lot of energy into teaching our classes ' scored the lowest of all the areas for the year 8 girls, so we were interested in exploring students ' interpretation of that statement. Some of the ways students identified an ' energetic ' teacher were as follows:
X: ' They really want to help you and their classes are interesting ' .
X: Like, some teachers can be really enthusiastic about something and other teachers can be . . . like . . . you ' re misbehaving or something and the people that are doing the work just don ' t get the proper work that ' s needed. And say you think, “I ' ll just sit here because you ' re not showing anything toward the work. You ' re not trying to include yourself in this workâ€. Like, they just sit down, or something ' .
X: ' Teachers show you that they want you to achieve, like, they put energy into that kind of aspect ' .
X: ' Um, when the teacher makes the subject really interesting and stuff then people don ' t want to just dream in class and, like . . ' .
X: ' When, like, the teacher wants to be there and they want to teach you and, like, be the best teacher and stuff like that ' .
g. Feedback
Two statements under the heading ' Feedback ' : ' My teachers give me helpful comments with my work ' and ' My teachers tell me when I make mistakes ' , elicited a range of responses from students. Feedback was generally appreciated, depending on the way it was delivered. The girls were able to give examples of positive and negative styles of feedback:
X: ' But, sort of, like, it ' s the way they approach you about your mistakes, like, a mean way or, you know, a nice way ' .
X: ' And also when they give you, um, good comments every time you do well, it makes you want to learn more and achieve ' .
X: ' Yeah. Instead of just putting a cross next to your work, they help you with the right answer ' .
X: 'Sometimes [negative feedback] ' s good because, if they tell you in moderation, you want to improve yourself but if they tell you you ' re doing bad, your whole work, like, you hand in a sheet of paper and they just mark everything wrong, you feel so low, you feel like, uh, I can ' t do this and so . . you don ' t feel that good about yourself ' .
X: ' Well, with an assignment, for example, if you get an ' A ' , they will normally write something like ' Excellent work ' , blah, blah, blah, and I ' ve even seen some teachers, like, with the good students, they ' ll talk to them about their work and stuff ' .
h. Engagement
Although there was no direct question asked about students ' engagement in their work, the girls identified the importance of relevance and choice to their engagement in class activities when they were responding to other questions:
X: It ' s when they don ' t give you just straight facts, and say, ' Do this ' and, ' Do that ' , and ' Go do your work ' , but, like, give a lot of examples and different stuff, and they take you outside of school and show you different stuff and just . . . '
X: ' And they ' ll tell you stuff about what it can be used outside of school for . . . '
X: ' I reckon a good teacher is one that, like, they give you work for you to choose, like, it ' s your own choice, like, you have an assignment and you choose your own numbers. You ' re not forced to do work you ' re not really strong on. So you can choose it yourself ' .
X: ' You are not going to learn it as fast as something you know you will use or something like that ' .
X : ' They don ' t just go over and over it; they make it interesting as well ' .
i. Firmness/fairness
We also explored the girls ' responses to the statement, ' My teachers keep control of my classes in a fair but firm way ' because of the relatively low score for this item in the survey. The girls indicated that they had experienced both fair and unfair ways of controlling behaviour:
X: ' I have, um, like, last year, there was a system where teachers put your name on the board, and a tick represents this, and another tick represents that and, like, you can ' t really argue against that because, you know, um, like, your consequences and I think that ' s ' firm and fair ' , because you can ' t really argue against that, when they, like, set rules and stuff ' .
X: ' Well, a lot of people think that a firm teacher is strict or something and there are a lot of strict teachers but a lot of the very, very good teachers, like that [subject] teacher, a lot of very good teachers, if you don ' t do your homework, you won ' t get away with it, you will get into trouble, but you won ' t get a detention, you will have a couple of chances, but a strict teacher you can only do it once. And there are a couple of teachers, where if you don ' t do your homework, you can get away with it because they don ' t check. You know that you can sit up the back of the class not doing work and you can get away with it ' .
X: ' In one of my classes the teacher asked me to move four times. I ' m like “I ' m not movingâ€. And the teachers, like, back down ' .
X: ' Most of my teachers will give up on the bad people; they just don ' t care. And then I ' ll ask, “That ' s really unfair: why aren ' t they getting in trouble like someone else?†and they say, “Oh, I ' ll deal with them later†or, you know, “The principal or the co-ordinator knows already†but nothing really happens to those people, which is just really unfair because some people who actually want to work, like, they get in trouble for nothing ' .
X: ' Mostly, the teachers, when you have, like, really bad people in your class, they just leave them. They give up on some people and they let them do what they want. Like, we have two really bad people in our class, and our teachers just let them do what they want. Some of my teachers go, “Go sit outside for the period if you want†and just let them do whatever…and they just keep talking and no one else can concentrate and the teachers just give up ' cause they can ' t do anything with those people, and they just don ' t care what happens to them ' .
X: ' There was a [subject named] teacher who let us do anything we wanted but then at the end of the class, she ' d say, ' You … [the class]…haven ' t been good this lesson, so every time we had [subject] we ' d get a lunchtime detention - the whole class. You ' d have to come in whether you were naughty or good or whatever. My friend and I would do our work and it was mostly the boys that mucked around and everything, then the whole class would get detention which wasn ' t fair ' .
X: ' There are some people in my class that misbehave, but they are the ones that get most of the attention. The ones that actually work get left out of everything, like when you ask questions you get left out because of the ones that are misbehaving and that ' s kind of unfair because we are the ones that want to learn. And the ones that are misbehaving… most of the teachers don ' t care…like they say, “I ' ll send you to the coordinator†or “I ' ll write your name on the boardâ€, but they never do it. So that doesn ' t help if they threaten and don ' t do anything ' .
Summing up the girls ' views on classroom discipline is this comment:
X: ' Like you can be strict, but be fair. Don ' t be strict over nothing, be strict over something but be fair ' .
j. Gender differences
In the ' Teachers and Teaching ' category, the boys answered much more positively than the girls in five areas out of six. We asked the girls to account for that fact, based on their understanding of the situation. While they were reluctant to stereotype, their comments suggested that two factors impacted on these results:
X: ' But there are a lot of trouble-makers and I ' m sure that a lot of the girls didn ' t take any thought. (Laughter obscures the tape) Everyone does it, but I think the guys also like to get away with a lot of things. I don ' t think they want to start anything. They just want the school to be how it is like now, because they get away with a lot of things. We [the girls] are actually willing to change it. Maybe at the time they didn ' t want to because they actually like it like that ' .
X: ' Yeah, I don ' t want to, like, stereotype boys or anything but, like, if the girls answered negatively, it just shows that the boys are happy with the way it ' s run because it ' s easier for them ' .
X: ' I also think that girls take more time to…if guys answer a question…it ' ll be, like “My teacher has energy?â€â€¦it ' s, like, “Yepâ€. But the girls actually, kind of, like to think about it. They, like, “I remember that time…â€. They actually take more time ' .
As a final question, we asked one of the groups why the girls had scored one question very positively ( ' The work I do is well organized ' ) when responses to all the other questions measuring the variable ' Quality of Instruction ' were fairly negative. Although this question was intended to refer to the teachers ' organisation of their lessons, it became evident that the girls had, with typical adolescent solipsism, interpreted it as referring to their own organisation of the work they did in class, so they laughed and said:
X: ' As if you ' re going to rate yourself badly! '
X: ' You ' ll make out you ' re perfect! (laughter) ' .
So, what can we learn from student focus groups? While we might have been particularly lucky (or astute) in our selection of girls to interview, what was most impressive about the whole exercise was how genuine, honest and articulate the girls were in response to our questions. The girls ' responses in the focus group interviews confirmed that we can trust the student voice, as it emerges from student opinion surveys. Far from the girls ' survey responses being impulsive or influenced by their peers, their focus group responses revealed that they had responded honestly and thoughtfully to the survey items. The girls were able to clearly articulate their understanding of the questions and explain why they had responded as they did.
Rather than viewing the opinion survey as an opportunity to ' vent their spleen ' at some teachers, the girls were concerned to be fair to them and several acknowledged the difficulties faced by teachers.
Alison and I felt privileged to have been able to hear the student voice as it emerged in the interviews and urge other schools to consider undertaking Student Focus Groups as an integral and extremely valuable part of the process of conducting student opinion surveys.
Ms Alison Gaffney is the Cluster Educator for the Manningham ' Innovation and Excellence ' cluster of schools. The cluster includes Doncaster Secondary College and five of its feeder primary schools. All of the schools are located approximately 15 kilometres from the centre of Melbourne, in Victoria, Australia. Alison works with schools within the cluster to address issues of transition and engagement in the middle years of schooling. Prior to undertaking this role at the beginning of 2003, Alison was a secondary college principal.
Ms Jennie Seddon is Assistant Principal at Doncaster Secondary College and includes within her role responsibility for overseeing the College's involvement in the ' Innovation and Excellence ' cluster. She has also been responsible, for the past four years, for administering and interpreting annual Student Opinion surveys as part of the college's accountability processes.
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